New to forum, about to set up my new 75g Jack Dempsey tank, Oh joy, Gary gets a new house! Options

[alex e]

Hey there I am new here. I found the "3 Minute Cycle" vid on YouTube and followed it here. My 4 year old Jack Dempsey named Gary finally is moving to his new home, a brand new 75g. Sadly he has lived in a 12g Eclipse tank since he was tiny, happily though, but he asked if he could grow some more, and maybe get a girlfriend, so I relented today and bought him a new home. He lives in the kitchen and will be moving upstairs into my 3d floor office/library. Not as much action and visitors, but still a great spot for him. I'm finalizing the tank stand, and prepping for moving the new tank upstairs. I hurt my back in May and it's nagging me, so I am lining up some buddies to lift it up two flights of stairs. What I am deciding on is of course how to set up the best environment for him, and which fliter(s) or powerheads to use. I bought a 90g over the side filter (Marineland or Emperor, not sure) and have lots of experience with Fluval canisters, which I hated, when I had a 55g then a 75g Frontosa tanks. Seems like you guys like sponge fliters?

I'm considering fishless cycling although Gary's tank has plenty of donor bacteria in it I'm sure. Once Gary moves out I'm not sure what to do with the 12g Eclipse setup....

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!

-Alex

This post has been edited by alex e: Jul 27 2010, 11:23 PM

[Crabfugium]

Welcome to the site!

Yeah, I use lots of sponge filters. I'm a huge fan of Aquaclear power filters, too. Pretty much everything I have that isn't an Aquaclear gets modified so it will run on foam like the Aquaclears. I'm done buying filter cartridges..

You should be fine just jump-starting the new tank off of the old. There's no point in doing the 'fishless cycle' thing. If the gravel in your new tank will be the same color as the old, then sprinkle a nice thick layer of the old gravel on top of the new stuff and then go easy on the feedings for the first week or so. Use plenty of the old gravel- at least half of what's in the Eclipse.

If the new gravel is going to be a different color, then you could just gravel-vac some of the muck out of your old gravel and use that instead. There are also other options that depend on what kind of filter you're using- check on that and get back to us. If there's enough room in the new filter, you could transfer some of the old filter media- in your case, that probably means ripping some floss and carbon off of the old Eclipse cartridge.

I'm sure we can help you find all kinds of stuff to do with a 12 gallon Eclipse. I'll let somebody else take the first swing at that, though..

[alex e]

Thanks a ton for your reply. I figured jump starting off the old tank would be smarter. Just gotta get the 75g stand figured out and then get started. My wife probably doesn't want a 75g aquarium in her SUV much longer. I'll transplant the old filter pad and some gravel and start monitoring. Gary won't know what to do with all the room. I don't feed him every day. He eats the Spriulina frozen brine shrimp cubes and there seems to be a leftovers when he eats, so in the interest of tank chemistry I underfeed. He's a bit skinny, I realize but he's never been sick, not once. So I must be doing something right. Also JD's must be pretty tough fish.....I'll take a pic of him and post it today, just for grins. I'll also look into the foam canisters.

What about powerheads though?

[alex e]

PICS of my stand idea and Gary himself....The stands are 3' server racks which can hold 1500lbs each and are lightweight aluminum. I'm thinking I'll need a third rack to support in the middle though. Depth is 20.25" - they work perfectly with a 75g. My sole concern is the tank sitting level. Each rack is level front to back and left to right as it sits now. I probably will put pads underneath each base to protect the hardwood floors, but the "feet" are 15" wide, no worries there about load spreading. Best of all they are free.

This post has been edited by alex e: Jul 28 2010, 01:37 PM

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[Crabfugium]

Lots of stuff to cover here..

Nice pics- Gary sure is a good-looking fish.

I would stop using frozen brine shrimp- feeding it to a fish that's this big is just way too messy. Fish are designed to eat much bigger food items at this size- the reason there are leftovers is probably only because he's going after the cube itself- once it breaks up, each individual shrimp is too small for him to recognize as food. I rarely even use flake food for fish that are over 1.5" long. You'd be a lot better off using mid-size pellet foods, and then transitioning to larger pellets as he grows. I try to use more than one brand to add some variety and cover any nutrients that may be missing in a single recipe. The three brands I tend use the most are Hikari, New Life Spectrum, and OSI. Feeding pellets will be much cheaper, cleaner, more nutritious, and you won't have to run to the freezer every time you want to feed the fish. Feeding small amounts twice or three times a day is much better than feeding a lot every two days, and that's easier to do if it doesn't involve a trip to the freezer each time. Use whatever brine shrimp you have left as occasional treats until you run out, and then don't buy any more.


I don't use powerheads unless there's some specific reason for them. Were you planning on driving an undergravel filter with them? If you're just looking to add better water circulation, use a bigger power filter instead. Here are links to the Aquaclear filters I was talking about- the first one is a great choice for a 75 gallon tank, but the second one would also work.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/215378/product.web

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/215175/product.web


That stand idea is very cool looking, but it won't work unless you add a lot more structure- you need to evenly support the entire bottom of the tank. A 75 gallon tank weighs something like 140 pounds empty. Full of water and gravel, it'll be closer to 850 pounds even if you don't use lots of rocks to decorate it. If you try to support that much weight with only a pillar at each end plus one in the middle, the tank may shatter before you even get all the water into it. Even if it looks like it's holding water, the glass will sag until the silicone seams start to leak as the tank gets pulled out of shape.

If you can get lots of those server racks for free, then you might still be able to make it work- you'll just need more of them. Alternate them right-side-up and upside-down so that you get a solid surface for both the top and bottom. Then bolt a piece of 3/4" plywood onto the top and maybe the bottom using bolts with conical heads- you'll need to countersink them into the plywood so nothing sticks up. It sounds like a lot of work, but skimping here will lead to utter disaster. If you don't want to go through all the hassle, then go buy a stand instead. This isn't the place where you want to try and save some money..

As far as protecting the hardwood floor, you could solve the padding issue and also protect against the inevitable water-changing drips and spills by putting down a heavy-duty plastic sheet (a tarp could work) and then hiding the plastic under an area rug. Otherwise, splashes will tend to wick underneath the stand where you can't mop them up, and then gradually turn parts of your floor to a lovely shade of black. I had a hardwood floor and a 10 gallon tank when I was a kid..

[alex e]

It has crossed my mind to lay a .50" plywood sheet the exact size of the tank bottom across those three racks as a weight distribution system, which will be ugly, but effective. My other idea is welding a 2' square tube frame to support everything. I like the feet on the server racks and could live with plywood as long as I use 9 ply baltic birch, sanded smooth, maybe 3 layers worth, finished with spray Deft urethane? That would look slick and modern, like my home. Gary would like it too. A rubber mat underneath would most likely do the trick.

MOst def on the pellets if they are good for him. He has to hunt for the brine shrimp once the ball breaks up.....

This post has been edited by alex e: Jul 28 2010, 07:25 PM

[Crabfugium]

I like the idea of a rubber mat- that should be great as long as it's not too thick.

Welding sounds like a lot of work, and it would be tricky to get everything perfectly straight and true. Plywood alone won't be enough, though. It will sag under that kind of weight no matter how thick it is. Plywood on top of a solidly-built 2x4 frame could work- let me know if you want to go that route and I'll dig up some links.

When I have any doubts about a stand being perfectly true, I use a layer of 5/8" styrofoam sheet between the tank and the stand- it's the stuff they sell at Menards or Home Depot in 4' x 8' sheets for use as insulation. The styrofoam will crush a little bit under the weight, and that makes up for any small inconsistencies in the stand. If you cleanly cut it to size using a big sharp knife and then carefully wrap the edges with black duct tape, it looks great. The black-wrapped foam kinda disappears into the stand because your eye is naturally drawn to the tank anyway. The same idea would work for a 2x4 and plywood platform, too. Anything that's painted black will blend in pretty well when it's sitting on top of a black stand- it can be far from perfect yet still look really good.

Any chance you're near Chicago? I could get you a really heavy-duty 75 gallon stand for $40 right now..

[alex e]

Dallas, Texas. I WISH I was in Chicago! I love that place! I can weld a straight stand if necessary, not that hard to do. Now the insulation, I know what you are referring to. 9 ply birch plywood is freaking indestructible. 4-5 layers even more so, and supported by 3 of those "pillars"? I'd think that would work. Some of the custom maple contemporary cabinet stands I have seen that were BUCKS, were nowhere near as stout as 3 aluminum pillars beneath a 4" multilayer plywood platform.

The thinking continues....

[Crabfugium]

It sounds like you know more about plywood than I do- I just worry about stands because I had a slightly crooked 2-tier angle iron stand that caused a 20 long to leak. Everything was fine for a couple months, and then the back right corner started dripping. That's when I started using styro sheets under my tanks..

[acestro]

Cool discussion. I like the look and idea of that stand and impressed with the JD, he's a keeper of a wet pet! Keep this going to let us see how this develops. As you can see, Cfuge always has great practical fishkeeping knowledge on tap. Welcome!

[alex e]

Thanks! I'm going to try some pellets with Gary, and the third rack is on its way from the manufacturer. That 75g aquarium has a stout plastic frame at the bottom that is super thick, by the way. Pretty heavy duty. I'm gonna do the plywood anyway, as well, can't hurt. Can't wait to start. Another neat thing is I can bolt in shelves left to right in the racks to hold gear, food, etc. I'm a style junkie so I've always sorta hated those angle iron stands....I had one once.

One question. Will a Marineland 70g over the side be enough filtration, or show I take it back and get a 90g?

This post has been edited by alex e: Jul 30 2010, 06:00 PM

[Crabfugium]

Not sure what filter you have there- I looked up the Marineland filters, and I don't see anything called a 70 or a 90g in either the Penguin or Emperor lines..

I'd still recommend taking it back and getting an Aquaclear 110. It's not cheap, but it'll pay for itself quickly because you won't have to buy any disposable cartridges. You can just wash the foam block in the sink and then cram it back in there. The foam will last for many years before you have to replace it, and even then it costs less than $7 online.

[alex e]

Yeah I am probably going to do exactly that, tomorrow.

[alex e]

I think I have an Emperor 400:

http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland...11&mid=3226

I love the bio wheels. Why not stuff the filter full of foam rather than those stupid cartridges?

The other thought I had was why not add the Emperor filter to my 12g Eclipse and get the bacteria colony going that way? Ugly yes, but it would work, and my 12g would have the living s*** filtered out of it!

When the 75 is ready merely transport that Emperor filter to the new tank, all ready to go.

This post has been edited by alex e: Jul 31 2010, 05:25 PM

[Crabfugium]

The Emperors would need to use very large pieces of foam, and they're about the last thing that I haven't properly converted yet. I have a 280 and a 400, and they're just running those gray media baskets that I cut away the inside ribs from and stuffed full of floss, foam, or the stiff white filter pad stuff. I'm not buying any cartridges for them, but it's not a very good setup either. The baskets don't hold much volume of media, so this was just supposed to be a temporary solution. Temporary has now turned into almost 2 years. I'll get it sorted out eventually, but it'll always be a kludge.

You could get the bacteria going by simply floating the Emperor bio-wheels or Aquaclear foam in the tank for a week or two. It might take that long to get the stand squared away anyhow. That would save you the trouble of hooking up the whole filter in the 12g, and it would be almost as effective.

[alex e]

The more I look at it, the more I just want to return the Emperor and get the Aquaclear 110 and be done with it, and mods are documented already. Gary ate his first large Hikari pellets today. He's not very good at finding them yet. My youngest cat also ate one, and she liked it.

More later.

This post has been edited by alex e: Aug 1 2010, 01:41 PM

[alex e]

Still waiting on that third support, but picked up the AquaClear110, and in the meanwhile starting doing regular 1-2 gal water changes on the 12 g Eclipse for Gary. I'm concerned. He's sluggish and timid lately. I rearranged his tank to give him more refuge, which he's taken advantage of. He isn't sick, but he's stressed about something. His respiration always looks normal and only very seldom does he scratch. I usually toss in a tablespoon of sea salt for that. Water reads at 0ppm for everything but nitrate, which I'm trying to control with water changes and gravel vac. I did try to feed him some BIG pellets, but he totally ignores them. Used to be as soon as he saw me open the fridge for his brine shrimp, he would come blasting out and dance at the glass, now he won't really move until I'm away from the tank, then he timidly starts eating the shrimp. He's never acted this way. I also replaced the old nasty filter pad in the hood with 3 layers of Fluval blue floss pad cut to fit.

I'm stumped.

[Crabfugium]

Check the temperature- maybe your heater is acting up.

Sorry to hear he's not digging the pellets. Maybe try another brand and go a bit smaller? After he figures out that pellets are food, then maybe he'll also eat the stuff you have now. It may take awhile to get him switched over, though. Sounds like he's spoiled rotten. It might be kinda like trying to get a kid to eat his veggies after he's gotten used to eating nothing but ice cream for every meal..

[alex e]

Check the temperature- maybe your heater is acting up.

Dude you read my mind. That was one thing I forgot to mention. Seems temperature is running a bit cooler and I thought the heater might be losin it. Temp right now is maybe 78F? Usually a tad higher than that....

[Crabfugium]

78 doesn't seem cold enough to be causing behavioral changes, but who knows..

If you're on city water, they may have done something to it recently. I remember reading something awhile back about how they suddenly added a super-heavy dose of chloramines or whatever to the water supply somewhere in Wisconsin and nuked a lot of people's fish.